88-xarelto or visit goxarelto.com. it's time for "end point." let's let ryan lizza begin today. >> now that we know who this -- the person is who wrote the e-mail to bob woodward i think it adds clarity. >> who is it? >> gene sperling who is the top economic adviser to the president. he's been in the obama administration since the first day, he was in the clinton administration for almost all eight years, he's known bob woodward for a really, really long time. >> two decades. >> these are two people at the

top of their professions battling it out over a public issue. frankly i don't see the e-mail as anything that we should all be shocked or superconcerned about it. i mean, every one of us can produce an e-mail from a white house, it doesn't matter of which party, that is far more ominous than what woodward got. >> what do you think? >> i think the bigger picture is -- the woodward thing is fun to talk about for a couple of days but we're on the verge of the perfectly dysfunctional political equilibrium with the sequester that may perpetuate itself indefinitely. this is happening now, the budget stuff at the end of march where the government may run out of funding, you've got the debt limit again coming back in may or june. so, this is going to stretch on for months in this kind of dysfunction that's insane. >> and, of course, we've been talking about the pope. we have ten seconds until we get to the next show. >> i hope the papal conclave doesn't last that long but with senator kerry meeting with the syrian opposition in rome, all

roads lead to rome today. >> we're watching it. watching it. "cnn newsroom" with carol costello begins right now. happening now in the "newsroom," saying good-bye. >> translator: it has been a joy to work and walk with you. >> the pope's last day. the cardinals. then the conclave. on this history-making morning, the world's 1.2 billion catholics watch and wait for change. >> i think we have challenges in the church that are pretty well known. >> i hope there would be a lot more transparency. >> i love my church. i just feel it has to sort of change a little bit. also, woodward versus the white house. >> it was said very clearly, you will regret doing this. >> "the washington post" reporter front and center claiming threats from 1600 pennsylvania avenue. and casa, the combine, and

the question -- >> do you have a girlfriend? are you married? do you like girls? >> the nfl now investigating, did this moment start it all -- >> are you gay? >> no. far from it. >> you're live in the "cnn >> you're live in the "cnn newsroom." -- captions by vitac -- www.vitac.com good morning to you, i'm carol costello, thank you so much for joining me. we start the inside-the-beltway brawl. bob woodward, perhaps the country's most famous investigative reporter versus the white house over a scathing op-ed written by the man who exposed watergate. >> they never really said, though, afterwards they've said that this is factually wrong and it was said to me in an e-mail by a top -- >> what was -- yeah. >> it was said very clearly, you will regret doing this. >> who sent that e-mail to you? >> well, i'm not going to say. >> oh, but this morning we know

who wrote that e-mail, it was gene sperling, a top economic aide to president obama. if you are wondering what made him so darn mad it was the op-ed to "the washington post" titled obama sequester deal changer. ed by ward criticized the president's handling of negotiations writing, quote, so when the president asks that a substitute for the sequester include not just spending cuts but also new revenue, he is moving the goalposts, reneging on the deal in other words. white house correspondent brianna keilar is live in washington. what should we make of this, brianna? >> reporter: well, carol, i think the white house genuinely feels that bob woodward is wrong on this issue. but, of course, when you have someone like bob woodward with his credentials, obviously people listen to what he has to say. so, i think there's very much a true disagreement over the facts of the situation here over bob woodward's op-ed and we've been getting response from the white house, not only have we learned

from a democrat familiar with the situation that the source that woodward was talking to was gene sperling, this top economic adviser to president p.m. who, you know, his time in government dates back to the clinton administration, prior to that, and that is his really i guess decades of sort of familiarity with bob woodward. but the white house is saying that woodward flat-out misinterpreted this e-mail with sperling who we now know it was with and that he would regret it, not in the sense that he was going to have to pay for it, if you will, for saying what he said, but that he would regret it because the white house feels that he is wrong on the issue. so, a statement coming from one white house official saying, of course, no threat was intended. as mr. woodward noted, the e-mail from the aide was sent to apologize for voices being raised in their previous conversation. the note suggested that mr. woodward would regret the observation he made regarding the sequester because that observation was inaccurate,

nothing more. and that official, carol, saying that woodward responded to that e-mail in a friendly manner in his next e-mail. >> okay. so, it goes on. brianna keilar at the white house. in the midst of the spat, those forced spending cuts, one day to go, no deal, and no clearer picture of what exactly will happen if those forced cuts go into effect. at first the sky was falling. now it seems it's more likely to rain really, really hard. listen to how the president has softened his message -- >> this is not a cliff. but it is a tumble downward. it's conceivable that in the first week, the first two weeks, the first three weeks, first month a lot of people may not notice the full impact of this sequester. but this is going to be a big hit on the economy. >> of course, that's a little different from what the president has been saying in the past, so let's bring in cnn's

chief national correspondent john king. so, it appears the president is softening his tones on these spending cuts. what's up with that? >> well, part of it is reality, carol. the president, you know, you saw it, he went to virginia, he went to minnesota. a lot of republicans saying if you are trying to pressure us into changing our minds, why are you going to blue states, mr. president? the president failed. i'm not assigning blame to him but he failed to convince republicans to come to the table to give him more tax increases to cut a deal before the deadline tomorrow. so, the president's going to meet with the congressional leadership tomorrow but he knows now the forced budget cuts are going to go into effect. what is he saying? you might not notice this right away. he's softening his tone because now having failed to get a deal before the deadline he has to get one after the deadline and the only way to get that deal is to do bils wiusiness with the republican leadership and they are using this woodward back and forth as part of their evidence, saying, look, the president made a miscalculation. it was the president's idea and the republicans signed on to it

and they both own it. nobody thought it would come to get to it, and this is a game eck they used in the past and now they'll come to a cry sis using this gimmick for punting down the road. after saying for days, there's immediate pain and it's horrible, now he's saying it will be a couple weeks until the people see the pain. it's a giant question mark if the economy stumbles again even if the president wins this sequester fight in the short term, boy, you know, a slower recovery would hurt him in the long term as he tries to build a legacy in his second term. >> but it sure would be nice if the american people had a straight answer from someone on what exactly will happen when these spending cuts go into effect friday midnight, like, i just think that it's appalling that we don't know, we don't have any clear answer from anyone. >> well, we're going to see cuts, there's question about that and we'll see how the federal agencies implement these cuts, you know, on one hand the republicans have said, mr. president, we'll give you the flexibility to not use the meat ax approach. the white house has said, no,

we'll share the blame, you won't put it all on me. the question now is because of the second deadline, the march 26th deadline that's coming up and this is how they govern now, mini crisis to mini cry sis, it it's ab it's laughable. let's try to cut the deal and if we can do it in a couple of weeks maybe we can avoid the worst but even that, carol, that would be another, quote-unquote, continuing resolution, another temporary solution to what the government, the democratic president, the republican congress, house anyway, need to get about eventually, which is what's our tax policy, how much of the deficit do we want to get to, are we going to cut medicare and social security, are we going to have another tax increase. at some point they can't keep fighting the same fight. they have to figure it out. >> we got to run over the can that they keep kicking down the road, john king reporting live from washington. now on to the vatican where

the world is watching history unfold. catholics gathered outside for something the church has not experienced since the middle ages, pope benedict going through the final motions before stepping down as leader of the catholic church. here he is earlier this morning appearing before an assembly of the world's cardinals. the pope met with each of them individually for just a minute or two. and it will now be up to many of these men to choose his successor. it's an almost unprecedented challenge to an ancient religion grappling with the turmoil and scandal that's dogged benedict's reign. >> translator: during eight years we have lived with faith, marvelous moments in the history of the church and also times when the world is covered by dark clouds. >> there is no time frame for electing the next pope, but here's how benedict's leadership will end, next hour the pope leaves the vatican his home and will fly to his summer residence at castell gandolfo, at 2:00 eastern his reign ends and the

catholic church faces its challenges without an official leader. we're following all the latest on this story of intrigue and uncertainty. senior international correspondent ben wedeman is in rome and in new york father edward beck, a cnn contributor, but, ben, i want to start with you. so, pull back the veil, what will everyday life be like for a pope emeritus? >> reporter: well, certainly when he's in castel gandolfo, it will be quite pleasant. it's 135 acres on the hills south of rome. in an area on an estate that really is full of history. it's a place where there's an ancient roman amphitheater. there's an underground tunnel where emperors, roman emperors, used to walk in the summer to get out of the shade. the farm itself provides almost all the food necessary for the pope within the grounds of

castel gandolfo, i spoke with the director of the villas, who knows the pope well, he said he's a reserved man, a studious man who likes his books and is probably not going to be taking full advantage of the great outdoors. carol? >> probably not. how about protection? will the pope be treated like a former president? will he receive security for life? >> reporter: he will be -- he will have security, in fact, we did ask the head of the pontifical villas about that, and he said that no one will be allowed into the grounds of castel gandolfo, for example, where he will be for the next two to three months. there will be the usual security around him. however, he lives a simple life. he is a man who's, as i said, very bookish. doesn't have a lot of demands in terms of the food he eats or the -- basically the care he needs. now, when he moves back within the grounds of the vatican and

moves into this convent that's currently being fixed up, he will have a staff. he will have his personal secretary who will help him. he will have a group of nuns who will also be there to help him, to serve him, to provide him with his needs. but fairly simple lifestyle is what he's been living all along, and we don't expect him to really go over the top after retirement. carol? >> ben wedeman, thanks so much. in less than two months the pope will take a helicopter to castel gandolfo and he'll live temporarily in that villa. a little more about the villa. it once served a first century roman emperor and it's decked out with landscaped garden and are a gardens and a fish pond. thank you for being here. once the pope goes to this

villa, do you think he'll be watching what's happening in the vatican? will he be watching television? >> i'm sure he's going to be watching and be concerned. this is a church that he said he loves. his reason for resigning is his love of the church. he's made that very clear. and he said he's going to be praying every day for those who will be electing a new pope. so, he'll probably not get any more information than we are getting, however, i really believe that he will respect the secrecy that the conclave has. but i'm sure that he will be watching and as curious as the rest of us as to who that final selection will be. >> yes. so 115 cardinals will essentially be locked in a room. they'll have no communication with the outside world while they make their decision about who's the next pope. but before pope benedict left the vatican how much influence did he exert over the choice for a new pope, if any? >> well, remember, his major influence is the fact that he

has appointed the majority of cardinals who will be voting, so many of them will be in the same stream of consciousness, the same theology, the same thought pattern as benedict. at least theological perhaps. that's the greatest influence he'll have. also you have to wonder if there is a pope, a former pope emeritus who is still alive. do those voting want to keep something in mind of not disrespecting that pope or seeming to go against his choices or his direction. that remains to be seen. but it's a question i would have because we haven't had this obviously in 600 years where there's been a resignation, so we'll have to see how that plays how much influence that benedict is alive will play out in this. >> it will be fascinating to watch. father beck, thank you very much for your insight this morning. as pope benedict says good-byes to catholics around the world he'll walk away from social media. the vatican said he'll send his final tweet today and his

twitter account will go dark. it's up to the next pope to decide if he'll tweet, too, he has 1.6 million twitter followers. stay with cnn all morning long as we have live coverage on the pope's final day. in 30 minutes fascinating information about the conclave gathering to choose the new pope, everything from how the smoke signals started to the longest it's ever taken to choose a new pope. it's not a daylong thing. and at 10:00 eastern we'll have live team coverage as the pope leaves the vatican and travels to castel gandolfo and then officially resigns. the dow closed within 90 points of its all-time high on wednesday, but will a lackluster gdp report drive it further from that market milestone? we'll head to wall street next for some answers. [ rosa ] i'm rosa and i quit smoking with chantix. when the doctor told me that i could smoke for the first week... i'm like...yeah, ok... little did i know that one week later i wasn't smoking. [ male announcer ] along with support, chantix is proven to help people quit smoking. it reduces the urge to smoke.

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united states is providing to the syrian opposition. the nfl now investigating whether draft prospect nick casa was asked about his sexual orientation during the scouting combine. casa says he was asked do you like girls. the tight end went on dan patrick's radio show to clarify the context saying the question was not an official one and was said in jest. an nfl spokesman said league policy bans teams from asking about sexual orientation during the hiring process. and the world's tallest hotel opens in dubai today, the marriott marquis is 1,145 feet high. a hong kong hotel has rooms that are higher but it's part of a skyscraper not just a hotel structure. all right, so here's a great headline for you this morning, the economy grew more than expected last quarter. alison kosik is at the new york stock exchange. wow. i think.

>> reporter: well, no, no, no, i wouldn't say wow. hold that thought. first, though, you know, let's talk about the all-time high for the dow. it's getting very, very close, the dow right now at 14,075. the magic number everyone is looking for is for the dow to hit the record number at 14,164 and here's why i don't think that will happen today. because gdp at the same time it did come in in positive territory, higher than everybody expe expected, it was just barely, it went from negative 0.1 percent to positive 0.1 percent, that's not a lot of movement. i'm talking about the economic growth for the last three months of last year. it barely moved and why do you think that was? because of all those fiscal cliff worries, and now the worry is that these sort of fiscal cliff take two worries with these forced spending cuts are going to kind of bleed on over to the first quarter as well. one thing to keep in mind, carol, gdp that economic growth number i'm telling you about, 0.1 percent, it still has to be revised a third and final time. who knows? could come in better, carol? >> i hope so, alison kosik

reporting live from the new york stock exchange. "talk back" question for you today, are the forced spending cuts a good idea? facebook.com/carolcnn. or tweet me. casso painted one of his master works at 56. doris taerbaum finished her first marathon at 50. not everyone peaks in their twenties. throughout their lives. passion keeps them realizing possibilities. an ally for real possibilities. aarp. find tools and support at aarp.org/possibilities. and i'm here to tell homeowners that are 62 and older about a great way to live a better retirement. it's called a reverse mortgage. [ male announcer ] call right now to receive your free dvd and booklet with no obligation. it answers questions like how a reverse mortgage works, how much you qualify for,

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your friends might think you found the secret to losing weight. but it's no secret... it's slimful. eating less is a beautiful thing. now's your chance to talk back on one of the big stories today. the questions this morning are those forced spending cuts actually a good idea? an inside-the-beltway brawl, bob woodward versus the white house over a scathing op-ed written by the man who exposed watergate. >> they never really said, though, afterwards they've said that this is factfully wrong and it was said to me in an e-mail by a top -- >> what was said? yeah. >> it was -- it was said very clearly, you will regret doing

this. >> who sent that e-mail to you? >> well, i'm not going to say. >> well, we know now it was gene sperling one of obama's top economic advisers. the rift, though, has exploded online. the liberal huffington post calling woodward a drama king and the conservative drudge report white house threatens woodward! complete with an angry-looking obama. this supposed threat over a woodward op-ed titled obama sequester deal changer where woodward said obama agreed to the deal for forced spending cuts and is now moving the goalposts by asking for new taxes. all of this going on as the president seemingly softens his tone when it comes to those forced spending cuts. at first the president said the sky would fall. now it appears it will just rain really hard. >> this is not a cliff. but it is a tumble downward. it's conceivable in the first

week, the first two weeks, the first three weeks, the first month a lot of people may not notice the full impact of this sequester. but this is going to be a big hit on the economy. >> so, if the sky isn't falling tomorrow, "talk back" question for you, are these forced spending cuts actually a good idea? facebook.com/carolcnn. facebook.com/carolcnn. or tweet me @carolcnn. a comedian who sometimes makes racist, bigoted jokes could also send you to the slammer. because he's also a judge, and now some people say the that's a big, big problem. [ nyquil bottle ] hey tylenol, you know we're kinda like twins. [ tylenol bottle ] we are? yeah we both relieve coughs, sneezing, aches, fevers. and i relieve nasal congestion. overachiever. [ female announcer ] tylenol® cold multi-symptom nighttime relieves nasal congestion. nyquil® cold and flu doesn't. relieves nasal congestion. how do you keep an older car running like new? you ask a ford customer. when they tell you that you need your oil changed

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good morning. i'm carol costello. thank you so much for joining us. it's just about 30 minutes past the hour. stories we're watching right now

in the "newsroom" -- wall street's opening for the day and investors have new data to digest. first-time jobless claims fell more than expected last week and the revised gdp figures for the last month of 2012 show the economy actually grew but not by much. today is the deadline for the obama administration to file a supreme court brief for california's same-sex marriage ban. if the administration decides to support marriage equality, it will not only be a landmark moment for the lgbt movement but raise the stakes for the march 26th oral arguments. and we're learning new details about the meteor that exploded over russia two weeks ago. the latest estimates it was 56 feet across and weighed more than 700,000 tons and was moving about 40,000 miles per hour when it blew apart. the right now at the vatican, it's the beginning of the end to

pope benedict's reign. the pope wrapping up his final farewells, this will be the first retirement of a pope since the middle ages. before stepping down as leader of the catholic church pope benedict is going through the final steps. here he is earlier this morning appearing before an assembly of the world's cardinals. he met with each of them individually for just a minute or two. and it will now be up to many of these cardinals, these men, to choose his successor. it's an almost unprecedented challenge to an ancient religion grappling with the turmoil and scandal that's dogged benedict's reign. there's no time frame for electing the next pope, but here's how benedict's leadership will end. in the next hour at 10:45 eastern the pope leaves his vatican home, he'll fly by helicopter to his summer residence at castel gandolfo, at 2:00 p.m. his reign ends and the catholic church will be without a leader. stay with us all morning long as we have final coverage of the pope's final day.

and we'll have interesting information about the conclave that will pick the pope from the history of the smoke signals to the longest it's ever taken to what's a pope. and we'll have live team coverage as the pope leaves the vatican and travels to castel gandolfo and then officially resigns. political buzz is your rapid fire look at the best political topics of the day. three topics and 30 seconds on the clock. playing with us today roland martin cnn political analyst and -- >> hey! >> and will cain cnn contributor and analyst at the blaze. hi, will. >> good morning. >> let's talk about the forced spending cuts, one day to go, no deal, it's still not exactly clear what will happen if the forced cuts take effect and president obama may now be softening his message. >> this is not a cliff. but it is a tumbledown ward. a lot of people may not notice the full impact of this

sequester, but this is going to be a big hit on the economy. companies are preparing layoff notices. families are preparing to cut back on expenses. and the longer these cuts are in place, the bigger the impact will become. >> okay. so, you see how the tone is changing, and does that mean the sky won't fall after all, and if it does mean that, then republicans were right. so, the question, what if the sky doesn't fall, roland? >> well, first of all, republicans were right about it. then when you hear governor bob mcdonald talking about how the virginia economy will be decimated, he's also a republican, so i'm not quite sure. look at the end of the day you have politicians on both sides who want to make the argument that the economy is going to be negatively impacted if you have these draconian cuts. remember, it was supposed to be the supercommittee's job, then they were supposed to come to an agreement and nobody came to an agreement. so, this comes down to really

philosophical debate here with fiscal conservatives saying, hey, go right ahead. then, of course, the president who wants to say, no, guess what, it's going to hurt the very people disenfranchising the poor. bottom line is both of them have to have lots to blame for this. >> will? >> draconian, 1.2%, on a $3.6 trillion budget. that's draconian. here's the reality. president obama now realizes over the last several weeks he's politically overplayed his hand. he's hiked up hysterics, he's talked about the current level of government spending that total $3.6 trillion, that's the only thing saving the economy. now he realizes the things will go through and thes had tear ricks and the hike didn't go through. all that i talked about isn't true. it won't come into play tomorrow

or next week or next month. >> no republicans hyped it? i thought they were. >> we've got to move on to the second question! we've learned that a top obama aide gene sperling is the man who e-mailed investigative reporter bob woodward saying, of course, sperling said it in an e-mail that woodward would regret publishing his op-ed on these forced spending cuts, that op-ed was very critical of the white house and of the deal, said the deal originated with the president and that the president went back on the deal with republicans that he would not ask for more tax hikes, so is the white house trying to intimidate the famous woodward? what's happening here, will? >> that's what woodward's insinuating, right? he's been threatened. he's been intimidated. i've seen the e-mails with gene sperling and many have suggested it's not intimidation. what we're suggesting is it's inaccurate and therefore you'll regret that inaccuracy. whether or not it's intimidation or manipulation, the point is larger and that is for the past four, eight years the press has largely been beholden to obama's message exactly as he wants them

to report it. do you know why? because he doesn't need them. he's not accountable to the white house press gallery, he's not accountable to the media because he has his own. he can reach audiences without the intermediary of the media and by the way every president going forward will have that same benefit and you have to find new ways to hold him accountable. >> roland? >> that was the exact same arguments liberals used by saying that president bush can go to talk radio, he can go to conservative websites, go to fox news. carol, i've been a journalist since 1991, okay? i've covered city halls, county governments, state officials, how many times have you had somebody threaten you by saying, you know, don't report that, you're going to regret it? seriously! >> a million times. >> this is all drama, all right? so, this is wonderful, d.c. beltway, oh, my god, bob woodward, hey, he's a great reporter, but seriously it's happened to mayors and county commissioners and councilmen, it ain't that big of a deal

seriously. >> on to the last and final topic. there's a sitting judge, a judge, in new jersey who is also a comedian and now the new jersey supreme court will decide if he can have both jobs at once, you know, be a judge and a comedian. now, this judge's stage name is vince august and he also appears in a tv show "what would you do" where he jokes about racist stuff. oh, my gosh, we don't have the sound, i'm going to die. really? we don't have the sound of this -- >> everybody's seen that show. >> sorry, no, no, i haven't seen the show. >> wait, wait, wait, okay, good, because we have the sound. so, this is the judge in his job as a comedian. let's listen. >> i don't need any problems from you people. you guys come in here all the time and you start taking, i don't need that problem anymore. >> all we want is the shop. >> shoplift, not shop. come on. stand here, please. do i have to spell it out? what do i need ubonicss, get

out. you are scaring the other customers. the actual people that spend money. >> obviously the judge was the bald guy. is it right for a judge to be making off-color racist jokes like this on tv and actually keep his job on the bench? >> well, those aren't joke. he's playing a character on the though "what would you do" and the whole point is to play a racist character and see how people around him would react. he's an actor. he's playing a character there and the implication is that by being a comedian or being an actor you, therefore, project dishonesty on your job as a judge. how about actually what kind of job does he do as a judge? judge him on that measure. and most of the part-time judges are lawyers and the other half, does that mean all lawyers are honorable? >> oh, my god, that's much worse than a comedian that makes racist jokes. you're a lawyer, aren't you? >> yeah. ask the audience right now if they think i'm honorable. >> so, carol, i'm trying to understand something, denzel washington plays a corrupt cop in "training day."

al pacino plays a corrupt cia officer in "the recruit." so are they supposed to not be involved with the boys and girls club and some other charity? i mean, seriously, folks might want to back up a little bit here. and also you can separate what somebody's job is. i don't understand why people can't figure these things out. the new jersey supreme court? you need to say, this guy should be able to keep his job. this is dumb! >> by the way, new jersey supreme court is that the bastion of honor to be judging all these things? >> i seen, seriously, he was acting! >> point taken, point taken. many thanks. >> thanks a lot. toothbrushes, lightbulbs, flat screen tvs, chances are you've looked for a better price online and found it on amazon, but for every winner, there's a loser. we'll tell you who is getting hit the hardest by one online giant. do you keep an older car running like new? you ask a ford customer. when they tell you that you need your oil changed

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you know, you've done it, found something on a store shelf and gone online to find a better deal and chances are you bought it from amazon. retailers call that showrooming and it's a big problem for stores like best buy and bed bath & beyond. alison kosik is at the new york stock exchange with more on this. how much impact does amazon have on the big box stores? >> it has a huge impact on the brick and mortar store, so there's a market research store that released results of a big -- >> alison, wait a minute. before you go on -- alison -- alison -- >> the survey found that the number one sort of at-risk retailer of showrooming is bed bath & beyond even with the 20% coupons that we can't live without before we walk into bed bath & beyond and at risk is petsmart, followed by toys "r"

us, and sears. and the biggest reason the problem is growing because of the smartphone and amazon price check app. they really make it easy to compare those prices right there in the store. you kind of feel like a traitor when you are standing there, though, carol. >> you do. i was trying to interrupt you but you did not hear me and i apologize for interrupting you, and i heard cheering behind you and we crossed the 14,000 mark. >> i thought were people weren't cheering about that but there's a lot of activity when people ring the opening bell. >> okay, thank you, alison. we appreciate it as usual. >> we'll be right back. (announcer) scottrade knows our clients trade and invest their own way. with scottrade's smart text, i can quickly understand my charts, and spend more time trading. their quick trade bar lets my account follow me online so i can react in real-time. plus, my local scottrade office is there to help. because they know i don't trade like everybody.

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graphic testimony again fills an arizona courtroom as jurors hear a taped conversation between jodi arias and travis alexander. this conversation is contradicting earlier testimony. randi kaye explains. >> reporter: jodi arias had a nickname for travis alexander, she told the court she liked to call him hottie biscotti, why, then, if she had such affection for him did she shoot him, stab him dodds of ti dozens of timest his throat. based on the phone sex tapes played in court today arias seemed to be enjoying the relationship especially their sex life. >> remember the first time that you and i grinded?

it was so hot. >> reporter: that enjoyment strongly contradicts her testimony that travis alexander physically and sexually abused her and made her feel like a prostitute. here's more. >> i really would like to marry a return missionary but, like, you someone who can be freaky. i worry that i might feel like a wilting flower is all who never really blossomed to her full potential at least in a sexual realm. i feel like i have with you but, like, i still have plenty of blossom time left. >> one of the other things we know from that conversation in terms of your blossoming is that you and mr. alexander discussed making a movie, right? >> yes. >> and you discussed making a sexual movie, correct? >> yes. >> and it wasn't, like, you were saying, no, i don't want to did that sexual movie, you actually were into it as much as he was, right? >> yes. >> reporter: the couple's text

messages about their plans for the movie were shown in court. in one text arias suggested she wanted to dress up and more. >> it also implies or indicates that you, that's the person that liked this sort of activity and looking like a horny little schoolgirl, right? >> were. >> reporter: it's no secret jodi arias hasn't been exactly forthcoming with the truth, not only with her relationship with travis alexander but also what happened the night she killed him. first she told investigators she wasn't even at his house that night and then she changed her storytelling investigators and a reporter from "48 hours" that it was a home invasion with two masked intruders. clips of that television interview were played here in court including this part about her miraculous escape as her boyfriend lay dying -- >> at that point i just -- i just ran. i pushed right past him. and i flew down the stairs,

like, there's part of, like, i wasn't even in my body so i'm, you know, trying my best not to stumble down these stairs and i just went out as fast as i could and out the door and slammed the door behind me and got in the car and left. >> and that's another version of the events that occurred on june 4th of 2008, correct? >> yes. >> and they're not true. >> neither of them. well, it's all the same things, just different versions, couldn't keep my life straight. >> reporter: and that wasn't the end of her lies. in court she was asked about a phone call she made to the detective investigating alexander's murder just days after she killed him. on the recorded call she lied again playing dumb about how he was killed, even though she knew she'd stabbed him and shot him. >> when all this happened i got a call last mean i got a call >> sometime between thursday and last night. we're not sure yet. >> was there a gun? was there -- >> i can't say what type of

weapon was used. do you know of him having any weapons at all in the house? >> um, his two fists. >> that's it? >> reporter: randi kaye, cnn, phoenix, arizona. 50 minutes past the hour, time to check our top stories. private first class bradley manning takes the stand in a ft. meade, maryland, courtroom this morning. manning expected to explain why he released classified documents through wikileaks. this was the second time manning has testified in open court since his arrest in 2010. and when heavy snow hits places not used to it, you can have some unusual stories like this truck buried in a snow drift in oklahoma. a couple of teenagers discovered the truck and feared someone may have been stuck inside. there wasn't inside but the truck found something familiar. the truck belonged to their high school classmate. bobby brown heading to jail next month. the singer will serve a 55-day sentence for his second drunken driving conviction in a year. brown's license was suspended

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boehner and his clan like to throw their weight around and do what's best for them, not the american people. this from wally. we have had deficit spending for far too long. it's time cuts were made but they're not pretty. harry says none of the government programs address the true causes. this from george. it's like forcing an overweight person to go on a diet. they might not like it but in the long run it's what's best. this from laura, i'm torn. i know we need the cuts but they'll affect millions of people from all walks of life. this is going to be devastating for all involved. keep the conversation going. facebook.com/carolcnn or tweet me @carolcnn. oh, hi thehey!ill. are you in town for another meeting? yup, i brought my a-team. siness trips add to family time. this is my family. this is joe. hi joe! hi there!

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a show-stopping performance set the nba record books ablaze at the mecca for basketball. jared greenberg joins us for this morning's bleacher report. >> the yeah, carol, no one has had a better individual performance in the nba this season and his name is not lebron, kobe or even durant. if you didn't know, now you know. meet steph curry. he should of been selected as an all star but wasn't. last night curry made a loud statement scoring an nba season-high 54 points and nearly got the record for three-pointers made in the game. curry settled for 11 triples, tying for second all time. one of the best shows broadway has ever seen. but here's the kicker, curry's masterful performance wasn't good enough. the knicks still beat curry and the warriors.

there are upsets and there is this. penn state shocked the college basketball world winning its first conference game in more than a year and the nittany lions did it against the fourth-ranked team in the nation. the season of ridiculousness continues. students and alum at least today willing to admit they do indeed have a basketball team at penn state. an american tradition was in serious jeopardy. by serious, i mean not serious at all. guido the italian sausage has been found. the seven-foot encased meat product is a vital part of the milwaukee game day sausage race. two weeks ago he disappeared during a beer tasting event. wednesday two anonymous men dropped guido off at a bar. the sausage race lives on. the takeaway here, carol, alcohol and a $3,000 sausage costume are probably not the best mixture. >> i hope he was having fun. >> another lesson, don't mess

with nba canada forecasters. no one is more focused on the job. sherman hamilton on the right side of your screen is unfazed. he says ain't nobody got time for that. rated tenth as a video bomb by hamilton with a surgical-like approach that can't and won't be disrupted. right now on bleacher report, the staff reminds us that it is always football season. log on and check out the post-combine mock nfl draft. find out who your team is targeting right now on bleacherreport.com. carol, i'm convinced, broadcasting classes across the country, start using that video. stay focused. >> a news director told me once if something like that happens in the background, please say something about it because people are returnediwondering a but it was fun. thank you, jared. our special coverage of the pope's last day. erin burnett and chris cuomo anchor our coverage.

it has been almost 600 years since someone other than god knew exactly when a papacy would end, but right now exactly four hours remain in the reign of benedict xvi as leader of the catholic church. this hour is when he's going to board a helicopter and leave the vatican as pope for the very last time. >> the pomp and circumstance so many around the world want to watch and be a part of. welcome to our viewers around the world and here in the united states. this is cnn's special live coverage. this will be one of the titles that he's going to carry when he goes into retirement. i'm erin burnett. >> and i'm chris cuomo, next to erin. so we're waiting on this moment. less than an hour away. he will come out, there will be people waiting and waving. a lot of mixed emotions. he'll get on the helicopter

bound forecastel gandolfo. that is the papal retreat south of rome. there will be thousands of town folks there, the faithful, waiting for him. remember that will be the last time they see pope benedict in public as pope. >> earlier he said a poignant farewell to the cardinals. they have gathered to choose the successor in rome. he will be submitting to the pontiff. one thing interesting, chris, a lot of them were using modern social media and tweeting about what he told them in their brief interaction which adds a whole new and fascinating layer to all of this. >> it's interesting, so much social media being used and yet we will wait for smoke out of a chimney to see when the next pope has been elected. again, four hours. that's when pope benedict's papacy will visibly come to an end. 8:00 local time in italy. that's when the swiss guard

members, we all know them from their decorative costumes. they will leave their post at castel gandolfo, return to vatican city. that will be the outward sign that the papacy has ended because their role as protectors will be on hold for the new pope. >> it's one of those amazing things, going to the vatican when you have that memory. whatever your religion may be, it is a spiritual and awesome experience truly in its size and the swiss guard is a big part of that. >> absolutely. they're an outward sign of it. but this is unique. it's so rare for us, especially with the catholic church and its pageantry and mystery to be dealing with anything new. there's no latin expressions for this that we have to refer to all the time because they have their processes in place. what it's going to be. when will we ever see this man again? how will people regard the transition? will this conclave that picks the next pope be longer than usual because of this or shorter? we just don't know. >> and you talk about new things. the youngest person -- who knows who's going to be the next pope but the youngest person they're talking about is 55 years old.

>> that's right. and that's young because the expectation was once you're pope, you're pope until you die. >> that's right. >> but maybe now that's changed. we keep referring that only god knows. well, they believe in the selection of the pope that god already knows who the next pope is and the job for the cardinals is to figure out -- >> the divine intentions. >> that's tough to do. >> in just a moment we'll go live to rome. we'll talk to cardinal timothy dolan. if you're watching in the united states, he is probably the catholic that you know. he's the archbishop of new york, one of the men who's going to be voting for the next pope. first, though, i want to go through some of the other big news happening at this hour. we'll have special coverage throughout the morning on the vatican, but first, a veteran reporter bob woodward says a white house official threatened him over his reporting on the upcoming forced budget cuts. we now know who that who is from the white house. it was gene spurling, he loves to spar, he loves to fight. that's what i love about gene. he's a top obama aide.

now, listen to what woodward said that a white house official actually said to him. >> some people kind of, you know, said, look, we don't see eye to eye on this. they never really said, though, afterwards they have said that this is factually wrong and it was said to me in an e-mail -- >> what was said? >> it was said very clearly you will regret doing this. >> who sent that e-mail to you? >> well, i'm not going to say. >> was it a senior person at the white house? >> a very senior person. >> let's go straight to brianna keilar at the white house. so how has the white house responded? this has blown up probably in a way that they never intended. >> reporter: he didn't intend it, erin, and certainly didn't want to get into this fight with bob woodward but they think that he's flat-out wrong and the white house feels that woodward misinterpreted this e-mail. not that he will -- the sense that he will regret it in the sense that he would pay for what he said in this op-ed but the

fact the white house, one official saying that he will regret it is what spurling meant because he was wrong. that's what the white house feels. a statement coming from a white house official saying that woodward actually responded tojts e-mail from, as we now know, spur ling in a friendly manner and no threat was intended. the e-mail from the aide was sent to apologize for voices being raised in their previous conversation. the note suggested that mr. woodward would regret the observation he made regarding the sequester because that observation was inaccurate, nothing more, erin. >> let me ask you, because this of course goes to social media. david plouff took to twitter and wrote something that was maybe a little bit over the line. he said watching woodward the past two days is like imagining my idol, mike schmidt, live pitching again. perfection gained once is rarely repeated. that's a pretty aggressive thing to say. >> reporter: it is. and he has departed the white

house recently but still a close confidant to president obama but i think what this speaks to is obviously this is somewhat of an issue for the white house because they're going sort of head-to-head with this person who is an icon of journalism. but it just goes to show you that they really think, erin, that he is wrong, that he is incorrect. that in this op-ed where he talked about the president moving the goal posts on how to deal with these forced spending cuts because woodward did say that the president had changed his mind, done a flip-flop, that the sequester was never supposed to include increased tax revenue to offset it, it was just supposed to be spending cuts. and they believe that when you look back at the sequester, these forced spending cuts that were put in place, that it was supposed to be part of a bigger deficit reduction package which would have included increased revenue so they feel like he's flat-out wrong and taking him on on it. >> thank you very much. well, the u.s. plans to give another $60 million in aid to

the syrian rebels. secretary of state john kerry says the plan includes food and medical supplies to help the rebels overthrow the regime of bashar al assad. the u.s. has already given hundreds of millions of dollars to help the syrian opposition as humanitarian aid so obviously that could be a big thing. marco rubio said he wanted to provide ammunition to the rebels. >> forget about their intentions. when you give money to rebels, does it get to the people who need it the most? we'll be watching that story. also a big story in the financial world. the dow jones is flirting with a record high. the all-time high is 14,164. that was set on october 9th, 2007. so let's take a look at the big board right now and see how close we are. where are we with that right now? 14,076.56. the dow obviously up, you can see that for yourself. analysts say the jump earlier in

the week was due to confidence in the housing market. complicated situation, though, right, erin? you had what happened in italy brought in lack of confidence, the market tanked. what does this mean going forward, the new government. but you know how it is on the street. the latest bit of information is always the most important. >> and i hate to be a negative nellie here and maybe me saying this is going to make it less wrong but where we are right now, another 150, 160 points a long way to go. >> i've got e-trade up right now on the laptop. you can't say neutral? all right, so let's take a look right now. obviously the big story this morning will be what happens with pope benedict xvi. this is his farewell. this is the last time we'll see him. it's completely uncharted waters unless you count back 600 years. now, one of the high points for us as americans will be that there for us is cardinal timothy dolan of new york. he is, some would say, certainly at the top of the leadership of catholics in america. could he be pope? for us it sounds so great. obviously he himself says i'm a

huge long shot and he said it in really colorful ways. now, christiane amanpour is in rome. cardinal dolan is her special guest this morning, a real treat for us. hey, christiane, how are you? >> reporter: chris, great to be with you all here at the north american college in rome. this is a seminary. as you say, we are very fortunate to have cardinal timothy dolan of new york as our guest. you know, this is going to be, i think, the last time that you're going to be able to talk in public. no tweeting, no interviewing during the run-up to the conclave that will elect the next pope. welcome. >> do you say that with a sense of relief? >> reporter: no, i say it with a sense of great regret. >> it's good to be with you. i appreciate the invitation. thanks for your interest in all these events. >> reporter: we are very interested and the whole world is interested in what transpires here because a pope is not just the head of the 1.2 billion catholics, but whatever he says and does affects catholics and noncatholics. let me ask you first, we showed for the world the meeting of the cardinals with the pope today. you were amongst them,

obviously. you were able to get some last-minute face time with this pope. what was it like for you? what did you say to him? >> it was very touching. and i don't mind admitting that it was kind of somber, it was kind of sad. i love him. we call him our holy father. i'll miss him. and it dawned on me today that that's the last time i'll see him as the pope. this morning, christiane, like every other priest in the world when i offered mass and its tradition is during the mass, the most important prayer of the mass you say for benedict our pope and i stopped because i thought that's the last time i'll say that. so there was a touch of sadness there. he was -- first of all, i would tell you that seeing him yesterday at the audience, you were there, and seeing him today, it dawned on me how fragile he is. i was privileged to be with him for almost a month in october during the synad of bishops and i could see that he had aged a bit but he still seemed to be very strong, very alert, very supply. but yesterday and again today i saw that he was very, very

frail. he didn't speak long. it was kind of a fraternal, informal meeting, the college of cardinals and himself. he only spoke for maybe six or seven minutes. i was extraordinarily moved, christiane, when he said, now you think about this, i don't know why i was surprised, but when he said i look forward to giving my alelegiance and complete obedience to my successor. >> reporter: i was going to ask you about that because he looked out and one of you perhaps will be the next pope. >> and i thought, my, oh my, now he will have a pope. he will have a holy father. and that was very moving to me to know that the life of the church goes on. jesus provides for his church. there will be a new occupant in the chair of peter. when i went up, christiane, you were kind enough to ask about the personal meeting. and i went up and, first of all, i started to introduce myself and he said, oh, i know who you are and he called me by name. i like that when the boss knows your name. and i said holy father, can i just tell you i love you very much and i thank you.

and i'm praying with you and for you and i speak on behalf of all the people of the archdiocese of new york. and he said to me i thank you. he said i remember my visit to new york. >> reporter: that's wonderful. >> so it was very moving. >> reporter: that is wonderful. of course i need to ask you now in that vein are you going to be the next pope? you are on many people's lists of front runners. >> i've been on my mom's list for a while. i don't know how many other lists that i've been on. but i don't think so. as you know, you're a pro, that's tough for us to talk about and it's uncomfortable to talk about. i'm flattered that you would even think that, but i don't think that's a possibility. >> reporter: you have used extremely colorful language in fact to play that down. i think you said you might be smoking marijuana or something. >> people who said that might be drinking too much or smoking marijuana. they asked me today, they said do you have a chance to follow pope benedict, i said i've got a better chance following a-rod on third base for the yankees than following benedict xvi as the bishop of rome.

i mean that. i'm flattered that people think that but i wouldn't bet the house payment on it. >> reporter: so who do you think might be, and i know you're not going to tell me a name, but what kind of personality do you think the cardinals are thinking of right now at this point in the process? >> you're asking the right question because we've got to think about that, that's very realistic. i think there's been three levels here. first of all, we're thinking about benedict xvi and we're trying to work through some grief. i use that word intentionally. some of that resolution is going to settle when we see the helicopter leave, as you're going to cover, and as 8:00 comes tonight rome time. the chair is empty. number two, then we've got to talk about issues. issues of pastoral challenges and number three, i'm thinking about myself and what we got on our plate. number three, we've got to think about, when i say we i mean me and the college of cardinals, we've got to think about who. you're asking who. what do you look for, what qualities do you look for?

i've never been through this before. i'm still a rookie for a conclave, so there's no -- there's no rule book or anything. there's no guide book as to what to look for. i say this, christiane, with all the sincerity i can muster but knowing that some people will dismiss this as being overly piotistic. i mean it when you say you look for a man who reminds you of jesus. every christian is supposed to do that. but in a particularly radiant and personal way, the pope is supposed to remind us of jesus. we call him the victor of christ. so when we see him, we're immediately elevated to the things beyond, the eternal truth and to the man who described himself as the truth, jesus christ. so we need somebody to remind us of jesus. that's sort of the what you might call the supernatural characteristics you look for. st. thomas says grace builds our nature. what are the natural characteristics that we're looking for? well, you need a good pastor.

somebody who's good with people, like jesus was. you need somebody who is thoroughly versed in the tradition and the profound theology of the -- of our catholic wisdom. number three, you need somebody savvy about the church universal, who kind of is aware and conscious of the diverse needs of the catholic family. number four, you need somebody who can get by in at least english, italian and preferably some other languages too. and number -- where am i. >> reporter: five, six. >> seven sacramentes. you need somebody with some manage y managerial skills. >> reporter: let me ask you if you were pope, you said you won't be, but what would you do the very first day on the throne of st. peter? what is the big challenge right now for the catholic church? >> if i were elected pope, i think the first thing is get christiane in here for an

interview. >> reporter: that is good. yes, please tell the next pope that's exactly what should happen. what would you do? look, we are in a state of some turmoil, i think it would be fair to say. >> sure it is. >> reporter: american catholics are fairly divided on which way the church should go. should it stay in the very conservative traditional mode, should it be more progressive, more liberal. and then what we have is this sex abuse scandal that has rocked your church, our church, for the last 12 years. >> sure. >> reporter: a brazilian cardinal said as you all go into the conclave that will be on your minds. >> it has to be, sure. >> reporter: so what does the next pope have to do to finally finish this business that has so damaged the church? >> of all those things? >> reporter: i want to zero in on that one first and then talk about the future. >> sure. the first thing the new pope would have to do is pray and pray hard. once again i mean that with everything because we're talking about a spiritual role more than a ceo here. we're talking about a pastor. we're talking about a shepherd. we're talking about the successor of peter. so to pray especially that his

own faith will be strong. but secondly, he's got to be very realistic. i would say he would have to trust in a very what i would call robust collegiality. that he's going to have to trust his brother bishops and his cardinals and listen to the wider church. i don't mean to say the popes that we've had have not done that. i think they have done that to a heroic degree. that's when we listen to god's people, when we listen to the grassroots, we can read the signs of the times as blessed pope john told us when he called the second vatican council. some of the issues you just mentioned. the turmoil that we see in the church today not new. we've had tension, we've had turmoil in the church since the beginning. all you have to do is look at the acts of the apostles. you see sin, you see division, you see tension, you see bickering, you see arguments, you see scandal. we've got it today. it's probably more glaring today because the church is under such intense scrutiny because of what we're going through now.

a call to purity, heroic virtue, sanctity, especially when it comes to the terribly nauseating episode of clergy abuse. we have to remind ourselves that that happened not because of the church's teaching, that happened because church teaching, what's best in the church is not listened to and obeyed. this is a complete denial of everything good and decent, noble and honorable that the church stands for. we're going to have to work, christiane, on the renewal of the sacrament of marriage. that's the great vocation crisis today, isn't it? people -- our catholic people aren't getting married. the ones that are, aren't able for some reason to obey what we believe marriage is all about. >> reporter: you talk about marriage and in fact in a few poll done by the pew institute, about 58% of american catholics believe that the next pope should start talking about allowing catholic priests to marry. do you think that's a possibility? >> that he might start talking about it or that it should

happen? >> reporter: should it and would he? >> i would say he might talk about it and think about it but i don't think it's going to happen. i think the past popes have listened and spoken about it and talked about it. so it's not going to be new. it startles me sometimes, they say why won't -- why doesn't church talk about married priests? i think we talk about it -- i can't get my haircut without my barber asking me about it. i don't think there would be that kind of change. you know this is what's difficult to understand because we, and i include myself in this, usually think of leadership models in an earthly managerial way. so whenever you have a new leader, whether that be the president of the united states, whether that be the ceo of cnn, what are they talking about, what changes do i want to make? for a pope, the mission statement is to conserve in the best sense of the word. his job description is to conserve, to preserve the

patrimony of the church, the spiritual patrimony of the church, the timeless teaching that's taught to us from jesus to his apostles through 2,000 years of the church. now, that doesn't mean that he might not change the way it's presented. that's always a call. remember the great image the blessed pope john used. he said the content of the church's teaching remains timeless. the way it's packaged, the way it's presented, the way it's opened, that can change. so a new pope might say, ah, what do we need to emphasize more? what perhaps more effective preaching can we do in this issue? but to tamper with the teach go ahead of the church, he wouldn't see that as his role. he would see it as his sacred responsibility to preserve that. >> reporter: what do you think, and again this is all part of how catholics view their hierarchy now. catholics are expected to, and

they are preached to by bishops, priests, cardinals, the pope, to live a very, you know, life according to the rules of the catholic church. and yet catholics have watched many of their priests, and we touched on this briefly, violate those rules. >> oh, yeah. >> reporter: what does have to happen in this church to bring catholics back to being able to respect their premise? >> there has got to be a recovery and a renewal of purity, holiness and virtue in the life of the church. i don't think that's unique to this age. that's been the challenge from the beginning. that's what st. paul preached. that's what the apostles preached in the first decades of the church. so that's a constant invitation of the church. i think we need to steroid it today. >> reporter: fast track it. a lot of unfinished business would you say? >> you know what pope paul vi said, he died in '78.

he said modern men and women learn much more by witness than by words. so he said what you just said. that very often the way we do things, the way we live has more of an impact than what we're saying. and if what we say doesn't gel with how we're living, it's counter productive. that's what's so tragic when you have leaders, when you have shepherds, even when you have ordinary catholics on the street who aren't living up to what they profess on sundays, that causes scandal up and down the block, right? >> reporter: you know, 63% or so of american catholics look at this sex abuse scandal in the priesthood and they say that pope benedict xvi, although he instituted zero tolerance, he met with abuse victims, he apologized, did only a poor to fair job of dealing with it. and i want to ask you yourself, because you've had to deal with all of this, you were deposed last wednesday. you were the archbishop of milwaukee and one of the most egregious violations happened

there. >> before my time. >> reporter: before your time. many would say that you did your best to try to account for that. >> thank you. >> reporter: but others would say also, the critics, that you didn't allow the names of the abusers to be made public. some would say that some of the desires to bring in an independent litigator may have prevented some of the money, some of the reparations and settlements going to the victims. what do you say about all of that since you had to be deposed about that? >> i was deposed about that and grateful that i was. i had said two years ago please come, i want to tell the story and the deposition went rather well. by the way, the deposition was about the fact that i did reveal the names so that's something i did that they agreed with. in fact the victims said do that, please, and we did. we have to remember, christiane, that there are certain groups that are never going to be happy with what we've done, okay? all i can tell you is that even though in the past the catholic church was a model of what not

to do in this, i would maintain that today the catholic church is a model of what to do. and i'm not bragging about that, that would be self-serving. outside independent people tell us this, that now the church is doing it right, okay? so we could dwell on the past. we could go back decades and decades and decades of this nauseating abuse or we can say mea culpa for that, we have learned from it and now thanks be to god there is a rigor and a renewal and a responsibility in the church that is laudable and exemplary. and i think that is 100% true. you mentioned a good point, christiane, that we can't seem to get that news out, because there are a lot of people who don't want that good news out there. there's a lot of people that almost want to say that what has been a societal problem, it's limited to the catholic church and the catholic church is the great satan in this. >> reporter: would you say a lot

of effort needs to go into, you know, finally calling to account and stopping not just the abuse but the hiding, the shielding of the abusers, which is another big complaint? >> i think we've done it. my lord, if we're trying to hide abusers, we're sure doing an awful job because every day it's on the front page of the newspaper. >> reporter: from before, holding people accountable from having try to shield them before. you know there was a huge controversy and there remains a controversy of cardinal mahony. >> the archbishop of los angeles. >> reporter: coming here. he has also been deposed. there were thousands and thousands of pages of documents that his own archbishop said made terribly painful reading. the consistent shielding of priests from any kind of accountability. >> from decades ago. >> reporter: correct. >> i think as a church we said that was a wrong thing to do. >> reporter: so you're confident there will be zero tolerance? >> we can never let up and we can never forget it and we can never say oh, thank god that's over, let's move on.

it's constantly got to be before -- before our eyes. keep in mind what you said before about hiding, sheltering, keeping people -- keeping this away from public knowledge. that was done everywhere, wasn't it, tragically. we see that that was done in groups, it was done in universities, it was done by the police, it was done by judges. it was done, unfortunately, throughout society. we did it, should never have done it, all right? hate that we did it. we can never do it again. but now we're on the right track, thank god. >> we have a helicopter stopping us from our conversation. >> that's not the pope, is it? did you get all that or do you want me to say it again? >> reporter: i think we got all that. so this is the last half hour before the pope remains in the vatican. what do you think as he leaves is his legacy? >> it would be a great one, and i think -- and i think it's going to be one of those legacies that we unpack in the years ahead.

remember when he came in in 2005, you were there. many commentators like your colleague, john allen, who's one of the more perceptive ones. he said the legacy of john paul ii we're not going to fully appreciate until years from now and one of benedict's main job is going to be to help us unpack that ponticate. so they're going to be voluminous but it will take a while. i can rattle a few off. >> reporter: give me two. >> i would say the deep theological pro fundity than been expressed with amazing clarity and child-like simplicity. and second i would say his constant call that the church needs to be engaged with the world in culture. you know, christiane, there's some voices in the church today saying we need to retreat to the cat combs. we need to circle the wagons. ben xvi said the church is in the world. there's tons more if you ever want to invite me back.

we'll go through his accomplishments. thank you, good to be with you. >> reporter: cardinal dolan, thank you very much for joining us. back to you, chris and erin. >> what a great interview, first of all. kudos for christiane. for people watching all over the world, you just got a look at what makes cardinal dolan so special to people in america, whether they're catholic or not. >> he's got the charisma. he can be serious and spiritual but also have a light moment. we were laughing when the helicopter went and he said, wait, is that the pope? is that the holy spirit? so that happened. but i thought one thing was interesting when he was talking about the future, chris was talking about we need to talk about the renewal, had sanctity of marriage and people aren't able to obey what marriage is all about. >> and he made a point that the teachings may stay the same but what we decide to emphasize, what the pope decides to emphasize may change. so the teachings stay the same. >> is that a call for reform or not? we are going to take a brief break. when we come back, we're going to be covering this.

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. on the inside, a day that has not been seen perhaps ever before at least in 600 years at the vatican, chris. >> we're looking down at the scene. people are waiting for pope benedict xvi to leave the vatican for the last time as pope. we're waiting for him to get into a helicopter and go to the summer retreat on castel gandolfo where he will again greet people and make his exit as pope and become pontiff emay emerit emeritus. of course the intrigue will surround who becomes the next head of the catholic church. >> one interesting thing i thought is he's not going to know before we know. there is no advance notice given to pope benedict about who his successor will be. he will find out as we do from

the color of the smoke, it's supposed to be black or white but often is gray. >> so he doesn't vote, he doesn't know and he did say, though, he will have complete obedience. he will be just like the other members of the conclave where obedience will be there and that's important. it's important for him to have said that. i guess it's assumed in the rules, but it is important because this is all new and we don't know what it means to have two living popes. so these are the types of gestures i think that pope benedict right now wants to make very clear that the church is okay with this resignation. that he will be obedient, just to give a sense of normalcy. >> and cardinal timothy dolan was just talking to our christiane amanpour, a fantastic interview. one of the things that he said, he kept talking about how he was frail and he had seen him and always thought of him as spry and now he sees how fragile he is. he's old and no longer able to handle the day-to-day requirements of the job.

>> those are the swiss guard, right? those are the costumes that we love to look for. >> yes. >> they are waiting. that's the first sign. they'll be important today also symbolically because when the pope gets in the helicopter, goes to the castel gandolfo and makes his last round of goodbyes, they will leave. when they leave castel gandolfo, that is the outward, official, symbolic sign that they are no longer protecting him as pope. he will have security, of course, but they will then begin to wait just like the rest of us for the conclave and the selection of the new man that they will protect. >> and that is the helicopter that we expect in just under 15 minutes or so, that's what chris and i have been told, that he's going to be getting into that helicopter and head to castel gandolfo. john allen is also with us, our senior vatican analyst and senior correspondent for the national catholic reporter. monsignor richard hilgartner is with us along with our contributor and host of the sunday mass, father edward beck,

someone chris has known for a very long time, i know. and melinda hennenberger joins us from the "washington post." father beck, you're next to me so let me start with you. how special and significant is this moment? this moment now that we have never seen before? >> well, it's unprecedented. we're living history and i think that's what makes it so special to us. that interview with cardinal dolan was very interesting to me. when he called himself a rookie, he's never been in a conclave before. the last conclave in 2005, there were only two who had ever been in a conclave before. cardinal baum. and do you know the other one? >> ratzinger. >> exactly. that was strong. this conclave, 50 of them have been through it before. so, you see, they know what to expect. at least half of them have been through it before. last time was very different because the papacy of john paul ii was so long. this time it's going to be a little different.

the history of how this conclave will play out will be all new. >> john allen, can you hear me from rome? >> reporter: yes, i can. >> all right, john, great. great to have you. by the way, in case you didn't hear it for yourself, cardinal dolan gave you a shoutout in his interview, saying that you were closest to what the reckonings -- >> i agree with your assessment, it was a fantastic interview. >> he was spot-on about that, we know that much. john, let me ask you. the obvious intrigue is of course this is different what's happening with pope benedict, not since 600 years, but how do you think that may translate and how this process will be different. how will the difference carry through to the general congregations, the conclave, the choice. is this going to be new in many different ways? >> reporter: yeah, i've actually done a column for the paper laying out ten different ways that this thing is in contrast to the last conclave in 2005. i won't try to trot out all ten here, but let me give you the most obvious.

the most obvious is that this conclave is not happening after the death of a pope but rather after the resignation. and you will remember from 2005, i of course was here watching it play out from the front row. you had that estimated five million mourners that washed through the streets of rome in those days. the enormous global outpouring of grief and affection and love and tribute to john paul ii. the overwhelming belief among the cardinals that filed into the sistine chapel back in 2005 was that they had just seen the end of a massively successful papacy and so the logic was simple, they wanted continuity. so cardinal joseph ratzinger seemed an obvious choice. this time there is no such obvious front runner and no simple, single, overriding issue that's driving the reflection, which is why a lot of us believe this conclave may be a little bit more complex and it may take a little bit longer for the cardinals to reach consensus. >> all right.

all right, john, let's come back here to new york for a second. melinda, let me ask you, when you're looking at this from the outside, other than the timing which you know i'm completely obsessed with, that's mainly because i have to figure out when i have to get to rome, but when we're looking at what might be different this time, that's the excitement, right? what are you looking at from the outside? what do you think the possibilities here are? and are we being too excited? >> in terms of the candidates or in terms of what we're going to see going forward? >> because pope benedict has created precedent here by saying i'm resigning, this is the best thing for the church, will that idea, what's best for the church, mean something new as well in the selection of who they pick, what they want? >> well, i think this moment will have -- all elections happen in a very special moment and the papal election is no different in that way in that i think people going forward have seen as benedict himself has said, the rocky seas. sometimes it almost seemed like the lord was asleep.

i thought that was a very poignant thing for benedict to say. so i think that one of the main criticisms of benedict during his time as pope has been that he was not very strong on the administrative side, that a lot of the problems were really a result of -- he actually tried to do a number of reforms on the administrative managerial side, i would say, that went nowhere and he was not seen as a stronger administrator. so i think that's something that's going to have to be very strong. the last two popes, as i think john said, john allen, were chosen. they were the smartest guys in the room. very, very deep intellectuals. i actually had dinner last night with someone whose college theology professor was joseph ratzinger. >> pope benedict. >> yes, but back when he was joseph ratzinger.

but they said he was so smart, go around the room, take 20 different questions in a row, remember them and then answer. so he'd take the 20 questions and then remember them all and answer one by one. >> that's impressive. >> so, you know, here's a guy who to feel some kind of intellectual dimming for him is a huge thing. i think that as they're looking for what qualities they want in the next pope, they may not go toward a third super brilliant theologian. they may instead feel that one of the renewals that's needed is on the administrative managerial side. >> that will be one of the big questions. >> it is. when we look through the people who are in the, quote unquote, running -- >> how are we saying it? p papibila. >> we'll be right back.

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thousands gathering. this is the moment we've been talking about for weeks now. pope benedict is saying his farewell. unprecedented in 600 years. people are gathering to see the pope leave while still alive. what will that mean for the church? all these questions remain unanswered. one thing is sure right now, excitement. people have never seen this before, they don't know what it's going to mean. he will be leaving, the pope, very shortly. we're going to follow it here live, obviously. he'll get in the helicopter and go to castel gandolfo and make his final farewell as pope. then all that follows, a complete mystery. we know the crowds are gathering right now. jim bittermann, you're out there among the people. what is the mood? >> reporter: i am, chris and

erin. in fact this is the first time today we've seen crowds. yesterday was the big day for the public but now there are thousands of people gathering here. they want to get a glimpse of that papal helicopter as it goes. kind of typical of the people out here are the faithful like anna, a polish lady. i have to tell you about her story because she doesn't speak english but she has a son in the vatican who's in the seminary there. she's been trying for weeks to get for a friend of hers an apostolic blessing signed by the pope and today finally she was here for 7:00 mass this morning, she's been here all day and finally this afternoon she got an apostolic blessing signed by pope benedict xvi on the last day of his reign. and that's really quite a souvenir, i would think. chris, erin. >> certainly is a souvenir. >> also a good reminder how all these people come from all over the world, erin. she's from poland. >> and when you talk about the celebration of what's happening and of his life, remember when he came to the united states. >> sure. >> and people tend to think how religious is the united states.

statistics show that it is, but people just were overwhelmingly excited and turning out to see the pope and having that opportunity. but it is a once-in-a-lifetime thing so for many. >> when he visited the capitol i was down there and people were coming in. i was maybe 30 feet away. because i was 30 feet away, people were coming up an grabbing on to my arm saying you were so close, you were so close. >> they wanted to touch you? >> and i couldn't follow the shot. i missed my shot because these people were literally holding me where it was. a great day for them but terrible for me. >> what chris says makes me think of something. when you look at the growth of catholics in the united states, there's been a surge. 70% growth since 1965. i know a lot of that is immigration, especially from latin america. but at the same time you've seen a more than 30% drop in priests in this country. you've seen a 70% drop in nuns. should this be on the table, this conversation of what it takes to get more people actually involved in being catholics or practicing as catholics? >> it absolutely is. cardinal dolan's interview spoke

of the synad that met last year which is about trying to reinvigorate the faith. for people who claim to be catholic but maybe are not as zealous or enthusiastic about that faith or really living the faith and having it make a difference in their lives. when we talk about vocations to priesthood, religious life, service within the church, doing good really has to do with engaging what we believe at a level that it affects our lives. >> so do they need to deal, though, father beck, of -- there's women priests, there's celibacy but also homosexuality. when you look at this country, it seems to be going in the direction of more people supporting gay marriage. there's a lot of people who don't. but this current pope has referred to catholic doctrine as saying that homosexuality is intrinsically disorder, he used that word twice from doctrine in the past 20 years. do they need to address that issue directly? >> certainly they talk about homosexuality. whether you mean address it, change the teaching on it, i'm not sure that's going to happen

any time soon. interestingly in cardinal dolan's interview christiane asked about married clergy and she said why not, can we talk about it. he said we can talk about it but i don't think it's going to change. well, that is probably a pressing issue because the married clergy, some people are saying that those things are related. they're not necessarily celibacy and homosexuality are not related but the married clergy issue for many people, they want to at least talk about it. >> that's got to be a part of the reason. >> if you look at other traditions who have married clergy, they're not exactly bursting at the seams either. so it's not going to be a panacea to solve that. >> there are catholic married priests. we don't hear about very often who used to be anglican priests and when they convert to catholicism and i think a lot of people rightly or wrongly believe that is the foot in the door since we have practicing married catholic priests, even though we don't talk about it too often. >> monsignor irwin, can you hear

me? you're in rome? >> yes, i can. >> monsignor, it's good to have you with us. let me ask you this. the pope resigning is new, it's novel. could he be doing the church a favor, not just in terms of his own alleged capacity, but that he is creating an opportunity for newness, an opportunity to rethink standards? what do you think of that? >> i think two things. one, he's made a contribution already in a sense of inviting his cardinals and bishops to be a bit more collegial. and i think he inherited a papacy that was much larger than life. i think in one way benedict has lowered that a little bit. number two, it might be the papacy entering the modern world where people do retire and move on and i think in that sense all bets are off about the age of the new pope. >> that's interesting. when this broke as news, at least in the u.s., the perception was almost 100%

negative. there must be a scandal, he must be tied to something, it must be vatileaks and there was other speculation that had to do with homosexuality and different types of extortion. however, when i saw it, at first blush it was, wow, what an opportunity for the catholic church because accepting the pope at his own word and there being no factual basis for no other suggestion at this point, he's saying it doesn't work for me right now and i'm going to do what i think is best. he then says this morning, in traditional papal mysterious language, the church is not of this world but it must see what the world is and we must understand our place in the world. you could look at it two ways, but maybe this is, father beck, a catalyst where it's not just unheard of, but he's saying do it differently. and the -- >> and the other thing is people talk about his legacy.

his legacy is his resignation. who do you know in our world who has absolute power who relinquishes it voluntarily and walks off into the sunset. he is saying for the good of the church, it's not about me, it's not my selfish need to be the one in charge and power, i'm going to walk away from this so something else can flourish. i think that's thebenedict. >> very wwjd. what would jesus do. >> what would joseph ratzinger do. i want to go to castel gandolfo chris has been talking about. this is the summer residence of the pope. it's prepared for him to go there today. it's about 15 miles away from the vatican. he's getting on the helicopter and flying there and will give his final address as pope. becky anderson is there for us. becky, it's going to be a celebration there. there will be some sadness too. we were talking about how, though, the people who were arriving there to see the pope would be having torches, things like that. tell us what you're seeing right

now. >> reporter: it's a remarkable atmosphere here. let me just get the cameraman to open up so you can just see the crowd here, the square in front of castel gandolfo is absolutely packed. there are about 10,000 people here. they are local residents and they have been praying the rosary for the past ten or 15 minutes. the pope will depart the vatican in ten minutes or so and will arrive here at castel gandolfo at 5:15 local time. less than half an hour from now. and it was quite a party atmosphere ahead of this but now a very quiet and very reflective time here for those who have such an association with the papacy. castel gandolfo has been the summer residence for popes over the last 400 years. get out of the heat of rome and come here in the summer. it is the most remarkably beautiful picturesque setting with a lake to my right-hand side. and this is where pope benedict

will make his last speech, say his last words. they are unscripted. we are told he will do that from that window just behind me. you can see there it's set up for his arrival. and then a couple of hours after that, at 8:00 local time, the door behind me will close shut and the papal guards, the papal body guards, the swiss guards who have looked after the pope over centuries will abandon him. they'll go back inside and that will mark the end of pope benedict's papacy and the beginning of his retirement. erin. >> all right, becky. just -- it is incredible just to imagine. this place which for 400 years -- and for some many, chris, sometimes i think about it as someone who was raised catholic and i know a lot of people who are still practicing and a lot of people who don't pause they have issues, whether it be with the abuse scandal or other things. but one thing that they all love is the fact that you get the same smells and the same feeling when you go into churches and

it's like a security blanket for people. it's something that they need and that they yearn for, even though they may be deeply frustrated with the church and not want to be a part of it anymore. >> i think you're right. i think it's one of the transcendent mysteries in our church in general. there's something about catholicism that inspires notice. and maybe it's its historical presence, maybe it's the power, maybe it's the stage of the pope as pretty much the only uniform recognized supreme religious leader, you know. but it is something to behold and there is curiosity about it. and now with what pope benedict has done, it is so unprecedented, it could mean so many different things for this church that it builds excitement. for those of you just coming to us right now, you're looking at the scene there in rome waiting for pope benedict to come, to board a helicopter. it's supposed to happen any minute now. we're actually running a little late. but on your last day maybe you milk it a little bit.

father beck, we have a whole panel with us here. father beck, what do you make of the moment? >> can i tell you my fantasy? >> hold on. just before you get started, obviously you see the pope getting ready to come out. [ speaking in foreign language ] >> his farewell, he's going on the journey. >> he's brought in the holy spirit, the holy spirit will be with us and certainly we all need prayers going forward. that's what they're saying in italian. there's pope benedict saying his final goodbyes to the staff, the ruling body within the vatican and he is making his way to a helicopter that will take him to castel gandolfo and this is his final day as we watch him there in rome. pope benedict. what were you saying, father beck, what is your fantasy? >> little known fact is he's never had a driver's license. doesn't drive a car. but he has a pilot's license. he has piloted a helicopter. he has been known to fly from

the vatican. >> he himself? >> yes. to castel gandolfo. i would love to see him sit behind those controls. >> are you sure about that? >> the catholic news agency reports it, so i trust it. >> if pope benedict right now -- >> wouldn't that be great? >> after saying that he is too frail to carry on as pope jumps into that massive helicopter and pilots it out -- >> i've been dreaming about it. it's not going to happen but it would be great. >> i hope he doesn't if he's as frail as he says he is. he's walking with a cane, something he feels he needs at this time. but he's making his way, melinda. >> you know, you were saying earlier that it was almost completely seen as a negative in the american press and from american eyes when he announced this. and i so agree with what you said that it really was his greatest -- maybe his greatest gift to us to give us this very modernizing view of popes living longer and the reality that, you

know, among other things, being pope is a job and there comes a moment when you can no longer do the required, you know, aspects of the job. and i think that he has told us from the beginning that he would do that. >> now we see it. this is the moment we've been waiting for. the pope is descending the last set of stairs that will lead him to the pathway to the helicopter. the swiss guard lined up. they are his protectors for now. >> you can see in st. peter square thousands of people. they have giant television screens so everyone is able there to watch. let's just listen to the last few moments for pope benedict.

it hasn't happened in 600 years. could argue it has never happened because when it happened 600 years it was a problem. what pope benedict is doing right now is unprecedented in the history of the church, unprecedented perhaps in the history of power. a man with supreme rule over a billion people deciding what is best for the people is for me to step down. >> there really is no -- >> interesting to notice the applause has not stopped for

over a minute and a half since he started exiting the building. it has only grown. >> it's a special moment for all of us to get to see the man up close. it's very few and far between that many of us do, whether you're catholic or not, get to see him interact with other people. you can see the fondness that they feel for him. you could certainly hear from from cardinal dolan when he talked about him leaving. there is a personal bond there. >> spiritual leader in every sense of the word. and you referred to the big screens that are out there. you see some people there looking at it. and here's the people awaiting -- that's where he's going, castel gandolfo. >> heading to the helicopter. >> this is really the beginning of the end. he is now leaving the vatican. he will never return to where he just was. >> where's the pope mobile? >> it's waiting for him at castel gandolfo. >> that's